There is the dance made by Gurdjieff, with all the people making the same movements, with no individuality. But Gurdjieff himself is not dancing. Gurdjieff never danced with the others. He had an enormous personality, a huge ego. We all have an ego, but we shouldn't kill it. And don't dance with a group. Or, dance with the group, and then dance alone also. Make your own group, and be the choreographer. Do you understand that?
I understand it, yes. And I also teach the Gurdjieff movements.
Ah, that's why I thought of that. That is synchronicity. I thought about something you are doing. Maybe I am trying to help you.
I notice that in many spiritual traditions, it becomes very controlled, everybody doing their practice, but individuality isn't allowed, and the creativity doesn't come in. It seems like creative energy is the most powerful energy that we have if it can become connected to spiritual work and inner work.
Yes. When you make a movement, a mechanical movement that is about perfection, it's not useful unless it's brought into life. You practice, and you learn discipline. But discipline is not the goal. As you go in your boat, you need to traverse the river; but the goal is not the boat. The goal is to go out, traveling, to traverse the river. Discipline is necessary, but it's not the goal.
Can art be a kind of medicine to heal society?
Art is not medicine, no. The illness is an invention. Illness is not your nature. Art shows you that you are not ill. It shows you how you really are. You are not an ill person; you have parasites. We are full of parasites. I call it prejudice. We are full of mental prejudice. We need to take that out, and that is the role of art, to show dignity to you, your human dignity.
Art is not a business. We need to search: What is a human soul? What is art? Art is: I need to find in myself what is beautiful in my human being in order to give to others and show to others that they are beautiful. I must not make art to be admired myself. I need to admire humanity. I need to teach humanity to admire itself.
If art is not a business, then is making money a curse for an artist?
No, no. If you want money because you're a good doctor, that's good. But if you are a doctor because you want money, that will kill a lot of persons. If you make art for money, you will destroy a lot of persons. But if you make real art, and you also want money, that is good, because that permits you to continue it, to promote a new life. It's different. Money is not poison. The way you use the money, that's the problem. The industries now destroying the Earth—that is the bad employ of money. Also, money is bad if only a few have a lot and the many have only a little. We should not be a society of slaves. We need the art to show that.
To show it's possible?
Yes. That's what I'm doing. It's not to change the world—that's not possible. But in any moment, you can start to change the world. It's very difficult to change yourself, but in any moment, you can start to change yourself. We can start, and that is important, to start. The intention is important, and step by step, that will lead to it. Not immediately. Step by step.
